Episode Notes | Transcript | AskTheGuest
Hi Fives (5 Highlights) Click for 3-Minute Listen
Bill Hancock is the Senior Associate Dean of College Counseling at Cranbrook Kingswood High School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
Bill shares his passion for College Counseling, his caring for his students, and his rich experiences and insights.
He talks about his “How? What? Why? Where?” approach to counseling, how technology is rewiring the college process, and his work to mentor young counselors.
Students and parents should find sound advice on the Challenges of Picking a Balanced List of Colleges in this fluid situation.
Hi-Fives from the Podcast are:
- Journey to Counseling
- The Counseling Philosophy
- Virtual School Visits
- Technology Broadens Reach
- Advice for the College-bound
Episode Notes
Episode Title: Bill Hancock of Cranbrook Kingswood High School: College Counseling Makes a Difference.
Bill Hancock is the Senior Associate Dean of College Counseling at Cranbrook Kingswood High School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
In this podcast, Bill gives us an overview of his Experiences in College Counseling, his “How?What?Why? Where?” approach to college counseling, today’s opportunities and challenges for students & colleges, and finally, his advice for high schoolers as they navigate the college process.
In particular, we discuss the following with him:
- Bill Hancock’s Background
- College Counseling Philosophy
- The Pandemic & Changing Landscape
- Advice for Students
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Introducing Bill Hancock, Cranbrook Kingswood High School [0:49]
- Hi Fives - Podcast Highlights [2:02]
- Professional Background [5:24]
- The Journey to Counseling [10:30]
- Counseling Philosophy [13:08]
- The Changing Counseling Landscape [17:11]
- Figuring College “Match” [20:53]
- Pandemic-driven Changes [27:29]
- Technology Broadens Reach [34:53]
- Advice to College-bound Seniors [41:45]
- On Staying Excited [47:26]
Our Guest: Bill Hancock is the Senior Associate Dean of College Counseling at Cranbrook Kingswood High School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. Bill has a Bachelor’s degree in Sociology from Union College, NY and a Master’s degree in Counseling from Edinboro University of Pennsylvania.
Memorable Quote: “I work with great people. I have wonderful kids to work with. And I think what we do is important”. Bill Hancock.
Episode Transcript: Please visit Episode’s Transcript.
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Episode Transcript
Transcript of the episode’s audio.
<Start Snippet> Bill 0:14
And then now there are some other social social issues that have started to become more prominent in, in the priorities that are established by a number of institutions and for good reason. You know, these are places that the difference in, in young people's lives and so they're reevaluating whether or not they need to step up and, but that also changes the landscape.
Venkat 0:49 [Introducing Bill Hancock, Cranwood Kingswood High School]
That is Bill Hancock, Senior Associate Dean of College Counseling at Cranbrook Kingswood High School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
Hello, I am your host, Venkat Raman.
The last couple of years have been anything but usual in the area of College Admissions.
Venkat Raman 1:13
We are fortunate to have Bill Hancock, a 42-year veteran of College Counseling, to provide some perspective, and help students and parents make sense of the current College landscape.
Venkat Raman 1:27
In this podcast, Bill gives us an overview of his background & experiences in college counseling, his approach to college counseling, today’s opportunities and challenges for students as well as colleges, and finally, his advice for high schoolers as they navigate the college process.
Before we jump into the podcast, here are the Hi-Fives, Five Highlights from the podcast:
Bill H 2:02 [Highlights - Hi Fives]
[Journey to Counseling]
For those of us who do this kind of work, you know, searching for that kind of connection. And helping helping students find that connection is really what, what the work is about.
[The Counseling Philosophy]
Well, there are a couple of things but but to meet the child where they are not to just assume because they're either smart or they're in your school, or, or something else not to make those assumptions but but to just go into your first meeting with an open mind and an open heart and try to have conversation there and find out okay, where are we? And what do we need to do next.
[Virtual School Visits]
We had schools visit us this past year or two, virtually, because we didn't have on campus visits for our school. So they visited with my students virtually. And we had over 130 schools come and visit this year, some of whom who had never been here some who had not been here in years.
[Technology Broadens Reach]
Students make connections with people they might not otherwise be able to connect to. I mean, I wasn't able to bring people from, you know, California to to New England for a two hour talk. You know, I mean, nobody, well, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would come up to Lake Winnipesaukee for a weekend. But But, but but the point being that, you know, they're not going to travel a day and a half to do a one hour meeting.
[Advice for the College-bound]
Likely for me, I'm working with students and working with them and saying, okay, the likely is, let's look at schools that have great honors programs, or have more scholarships for students with your credentials. So that you know, they have some kind of value added.
Venkat Raman 4:03
These were the Hi5s, brought to you by “College Matters. Alma Matters.”
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Venkat Raman 4:14
Now. I'm sure you want to hear the entire podcast with Bill. So without further ado, here's the podcast with Bill Hancock!
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Venkat Raman 4:23
So let me start by welcoming you to our podcast, College Matters. Alma Matters. Thank you so much for making the time. I know you have a full calendar there. So we'll keep it moving and interesting. Yeah. Cool. So um, as we talked, I wanted to spend some time with you to talk about your experiences with students with college counseling and your perspectives on students and the way things are going today and how it was in the past and so on This is intended for high schoolers around the world offer some sort of guidance and maybe some vignettes and anecdotes from which they can take away some learnings. And so with that, let's sort of start at the top and maybe chat a little bit about your background and how you got into counseling so to speak.
Bill H 5:24 [Professional Background]
Yeah, yeah. Well, when I went to college, I went to Union College in upstate New York. I was involved in athletics there, and theater, and choir in that. And I enjoyed the road trips. To be honest, I liked, I liked the traveling to other campuses, I had fun there. And, you know, as I approached graduation, with a sociology major, I was, I was trying to think about, what is it that I want to do next? What's my next step?
And, you know, there was an opportunity in the admissions office, and they were looking for somebody to travel upstate New York, where I had grown up, and they also needed somebody to work with the athletic office, and I was comfortable doing that. And so I stepped back and looked at what what were my set of skills, you know, what were the things to the table, and I, I enjoyed being in front of people from the theater background, I enjoyed doing presentations, I wrote relatively well, according to my teachers. You know, and so I thought, well, here's an opportunity, maybe to put those skills, at least temporarily, into play, you know, and maybe refine them either.
And so I got into admissions a little bit by accident, which, truthfully, when you talk to a lot of admissions officers, that's, that's a similar story. I don't think too many kids go to college thinking, I'm going to be an admissions officer. That's right. But, but as I, as I got into the field, started thinking about, well, this is more than just, you know, talking about your college. I mean, there, there were opportunities for me in that first year to really do some liaison work with the athletic office and build, build a system of communications and, and start working some analytics that we utilized. And, and then we also started writing our publications. And so somebody who really wanted to get elbow deep into communications and marketing, and that kind of stuff. So the curtain was pulled back a little for me. And I realized, you know, this is, this is pretty cool stuff.
And, and, and, you know, it was also and I think most of us who are in the business for a while, you have a moment where things resonate. And and, and there's just a moment of affirmation that just just lets you know, you're in the right place at the right time. And for me, it was I was I was recruiting schools and Buffalo for union, and one of the counselors couldn't schedule a meeting with me during the day. So he said, Hey, would you want to have coffee afterwards, after school, and I had a college fair that night, so it was doing nothing except trying, you know, all's in the afternoon, which is what we typically did. And so I said, Sure, let's have some coffee. And, you know, Jim was Jim was from Nichols, the Nichols School, which is a great school in Buffalo area.
And he sat down with me, and he had 14 students, and he could tell me the story of everyone. And I said to myself, I don't want to do that. I want to be able to, to know my kids that well to advocate for them that well, and, and to have relationships because I continued that relationship, even after I left union and went to Allegheny, and then it went to some other independent schools, but Jim and I always would, you know, touch base at conferences and things of that nature.
So, it was that moment that I said, you know, this is the kind of counselor I hope to be. And I still think that I still think that I, you know, it's great to be aspirational. Rarely are we really rarely are we perfect but but it's, it's, you know, I want to be that person. For my kids I I want to be able to tell their story and and believe in them the way Jim believed in his kids. So that's how I got into it.
Venkat Raman 10:23
So what was the journey Like from college to school? I mean, it sounds like you started at Union College. And then...
Bill H 10:30 [The Journey to Counseling]
yeah, I went to, I went to Allegheny college, and I was working with alumni representatives and, and students, I was, I helped coordinate their, their visit programs and such. But in those eight years that I was doing admissions work, I visited a lot of public schools met a lot of counselors, and you know, my wife and I were starting to have a family you know, eight, you know, six to eight weeks on the road in the fall, you know, with little ones at home, didn't sound as appealing as it did when we were just starting out. And so, I had, when I was at Allegheny, I had pursued my Master's in Counseling. And so I was finishing that off in an opportunity at one of the schools that I recruited at the Hill School became available. And it was, when we were interviewing there, it was just like, like, it just felt right. You know, you were there. I was very comfortable having conversations with the kids, with the administration. It just all fit. And I, you know, it's sometimes I tried to get my kids to think about that, when they visit colleges, how does it How does it feel like this is home, and work could be and, and for me moving to Hill, at that time, was like moving home. And it was, it was fortuitous. My wife's family was from the area. So you know, we got some, you know, family time points there. So that was good, but we wanted to move to to the counseling side, and that it just that opportunity appeared, and sometimes when opportunity appears, you have to open the door. It's cliche, but it's true. You know, that's, frankly, how I ended up here at Cranbrook. So, you know, this was another school that I, I had recruited when I was at Union.
Venkat Raman 12:56
Tell us a little bit about your philosophy, if you will, for college counseling or counseling and general approach that you take. How do you, how do you approach it?
Bill H 13:08 [Counseling Philosophy]
Well Venkat, I used to have all the answers. When I started out, I had all the answers. And as I have grown older and more experienced. So I think I think that maturation process is really valuable. I think today where I am today, is I I do know the fundamentals of what has to happen. I mean, yeah, if you've been in this work, you know, for as long as I have you, you kind of know, you know, a comes and then comes B and then come see. Sure certain things, certain things haven't changed, but but a number of things have.
Bill H 13:56
And, and I think the most important thing for me is, is to help the well there are a couple of things but but to meet the child where they are not to just assume because they're either smart or they're in your school or, or something else. Not to make those assumptions but, but to just go into your first meeting with an open mind and an open heart and try to have conversation there and find out okay, where are we and what do we need to do next.
Bill H 14:33 [How?]
So, so my my starting point with a lot of my students is basically how do you like to learn best? You know, what are what what is it when you think of yourself, learning where you your best learning environment? How, what does that feel? Is that for you? And so how you like to learn? I really think that that's important. The first one or two questions One, one should ask and, and so how do you like to learn is usually where I start?
Bill H 15:10 [What?]
What kinds of things do you like to do when you're learning? Are you a writer? Are you a person who loves and thrives on the seminar style Harkness table? Are you somebody who, you know, I'm, I'd rather sit and take notes and listen carefully and then, you know, either go and study up by myself or go and sit with my friends and talk about my notes. So, how and what? And then then I think comes the where? Because if we know, and the what? And frankly, the, the, the secret sauce is the why.
Bill H 15:50 [Why?]
Why do you want to do? Why do you want to put yourself through this? Or why do you want to study this? And those answers are very, very important too. So if you have the how the what and the why, the where makes more sense. And and so I tried to discuss the first three questions with students first.
Bill H 16:14 [Finally, The Where?]
And I try to do that independently of their families, Venkat. And I don't do that out of ignoring the family desires, but I think that it's important for me to, to listen to the student, and what it is that they have on their mind and the why, you know, the why is is, you know, the things what goes into the why is knowing why you want a big school versus a small school, for instance? Or why do you want a big city? Size or a college town? What is it that that's going to bring before you in your educational experience, and, and that, again, informs how we move forward with "Where".
Bill H 17:11 [The Changing Counseling Landscape]
You know, I think also some of the things that have changed is, is how we proceed a little bit, you know, you know, we can use software, we can use data, we can use, you know, software, that's literally an analytics program, I suspect some, some guy who was working for a casino said, you know, all these analytics, do this with college admission. And if they haven't, you know, you're welcome.
Bill H 17:41
It's, it's, but but but it's, it's a, that's one of the things Venkat that's, that's changed in the Wow, 40 years that I've been doing this is that the layers of nuance and sophistication. And frankly, the pressure that the kids are under, is different, it's just different. And, and different doesn't mean better or worse. But it's, it's a reality.
Bill H 18:14
I do think that in, in today's world, where social media is such a vibrant part of a lot of kids lives. That that social pressure of where they go and, and what they're considering, and what kind of majors and, and other things. Those are, those are very important.
Bill H 18:38
A lot of that came about through, you know, the, the shift in paradigm that's happened in the admissions world, and that we've moved from, you know, it being very much about, you know, student orientation and filling the class and, and focus on the student. And while the rhetoric is still there, you know, the pressure is on to deliver a class. And so, you know, a lot of pressure now, and a lot of office of offices and admissions have moved to an enrollment management model. Right, where, you know, it's, it's a business and while students are still involved in that business, you know, these people are under a lot of pressure to fill a class and meet budget.
Bill H 19:32
And so and then now there are some other social social issues that have started to become more prominent in the priorities that are established by a number of institutions and for good reason. You know, these are places that a difference in, in young people's lives and so they're reevaluate. and whether or not they need to step up, and, but that also changes the landscape and that we have to lean into as well. So there are some, some things to wrestle with today that when I started out, we, the conversations were a little simpler.
Venkat Raman 20:24
Everyone talks about fit, right, as students should fit into a particular college. It's culture, you know, it's a discharge, if you will, and how do you go about assessing that with the students? I mean, you know, obviously, there's their interest, there's their, you know, type of school they want to be at, etc. But what does it take to sort of figure that out? Or help a kid figure that out?
Bill H 20:53 [Figuring College “Match”]
That's, that's, that's tough. That's a tough question, what, one of the things that one of the myths that we have to engage, and we have to engage it pretty quickly, is that there's not just one, perfect fit. And a lot of, there's a movement in the business we talk about fit so much that it almost becomes meaningless. And, and so one of the, I prefer using the word "match" a little bit and trying to create those matches where it's almost like a Venn diagram, where you have the strengths of the school and one of the, you know, ovoids, and then you have your interest in another orbit.
And then you know, the intersection of those two places. Yes, is one, by the way, where you want to be writing your short answer essays. Yeah, getting those topics from those intersections. But But I think that where those intersection, is where we have to pay attention. So I start by looking for those intersections, what what does the college celebrate? And you can you can look at, you can look at websites, and, you know, what are the pictures that they're putting up? What are what are the headlines that they're putting up in their social media, you know, and kind of looking at some of those things and paying attention to what are the messages that the college is providing.
And then, you know, doing some reflection about what matters to me, you know, because this is, you know, one of the things I say not always to every kid, but one of the things I say to a number of my kids is, this is where you're going to live for the next four years, you're going to spend more time in this environment, then you are in your current home. For a lot of my kids, at least that are going to go away to college. And and that so those fits those, those matches those alignments or priorities really do matter.
And I think it really that last thing, the alignment of priority, really want to do, how do you want to do it? And what you know, and what opportunities are available to at this particular school. So, you know, I have kids that you know, love research, they just, and they want to do it with a passion. So does this institution help you find that opportunity to do that? Do they require it of you first of all? And if they do, how do they? How do they help you? Do the research? Are you doing your own? Are you doing, you know, you're working for somebody else's project.
And that's a that's a subtle nuance, but for some of my kids that matters, you know, so some of them want to do research, they want to learn how to do it, but they're not ready to venture into their own questions. Others are ready, you know, they're just like, you know, give me the top, you know, give me an opportunity to get out of my way. Yeah, you know, and so there are places for that kind of child to so I think, you know, trying to look for, what is it your what's your priority? And and how can we align that nicely.
That's where I look for the fit. I don't look for perfection. Because kids grow, kids evolve, kids change. And so finding great that as well and offer a broad menu so that as children change and grow and mature, and learn how to become more sophisticated in their questions. You know, that's important.
And, and sometimes it's an issue of, they have that kind of potential. But they're not at that place where they have realized it yet. And so in those cases, I'm looking for support structures, and persons, that that will provide the mentorship that can encourage them along, you know, and bring that tease that out.
Bill H 25:28
And so, you know, when we send off a child to college, it's not sending off a finished product. You know, I, yeah, it's, it's, this is the, I tried to, I do say this to some of my kids, I said, Listen, your, this is not the culmination of your education. This is, this is the beginning of your adult learning phase. This is where you start to make choices, where you have to discipline yourself and make choices to go after big things. This is, this is what we're doing here, you know, this, this is the biggest, all of us who, who are in a profession, it we, we, maybe we stopped going to college. Right, but we didn't stop learning. And, and so we have to learn how to learn independently. And and so trying to find those places where kids are going to thrive, not just survive. That that's important. And I think that that's part of the work that we do.
Venkat Raman 26:45
You mentioned a couple of other things. I thought another interesting thread is the changes that are taking place. I mean, there's there's been some pandemic sort of forced changes, and then there's sort of the social changes. You know, I think the biggest thing that's being bandied about is the test optional stuff on SATs and whatnot. Yeah. How, maybe you could use Cranbrook as a as an example of, how has it impacted, If that's the right word. Right, the whole process for our students to apply and students to think about their well.
Bill H 27:29 [Pandemic-driven Changes]
So I think a lot of the colleges early on, had to pivot very quickly. And, you know, some did with more success than others, but But I think one of the, the upsides if we're looking for, you know, looking for things that are strengths, and then challenges, one of the challenges was how do we, how do we get kids to learn more about our school? And, and how do we? And the answer was, you meet them where they are? Today, meet them on social media.
Bill H 28:14
Probably, I think over the last few years, back then a lot of the offices were turning to their, their counselors who were more present on social media and more adept at it, and saying, how do we do this? And so I think we started to see, you know, a far more vibrant imagining of how we, how we can share information about our, our schools, so you now have the virtual tours of residence halls, and you have the vlogs and the vlogs of students, you know, saying this is what our life is really like, you know, through the magic of zoom, you know, we we had, we had a, you know, abundant, an abundancy of, you know, faculty that wanted to share what was exciting about what's going on in engineering at, I don't know, University of Michigan, because they're close by me. But but, you know, I think faculties and institutions started to think about, wow, we actually can we can do this and, and, and I think that the, the richness of what has become available, I know, you know, a number of admissions Dean started doing the inside admissions, podcasts and right or, or blogs and, you know, they pulled back the curtain a little bit and said, this is, you know, this is how stuff works, or this is what you should be thinking about now.
Bill H 29:56
So there, you know, there was a lot that and some of it's great to be honest with you, some of it's great. I mean, I, I was doing a Thursday night, live every Thursday night Brennan was a counselor up and in New England would do a, he'd have two or three. Dean's book of the day. And you know, I, I show up every Thursday night on Zoom, and I'd listened. And it was wonderful. And, and so those, it was an educational opportunity for me as a counselor for my families. And I think that those things were pretty exciting.
Bill H 30:36
And I think, I don't think those are going to go away. You know, I think that those are, I think people have started to see, hey, we were able to do that fairly easily, fairly inexpensively. And we really had a lot of people participate. We had schools visit us this past year or two, virtually, because we didn't have on campus visits for our school. So they visited with my students virtually. And we had over 130 schools come and visit this year, some of whom, who had never been here, some who had not been here in years, it's because they were from very far away. And and so I don't think that that's going to go away. 100% I know that, you know, when I was talking to a couple of my, my friends who are visiting us virtually they would, they would say, so where are you off to next, oh, I'm off to Baltimore next, you know, so they weren't restricted with the I have a day in Detroit, and that I have to physically have to go to another city to physically visit, they could be sitting in their house, which is where they were. And they were, you know, I was in Detroit. And then I was in Baltimore. And then I went to Houston and then I went to LA and and I did that all in one day. And and I think admissions people, you know, that's pretty cool. And, and I know that some of them were visiting schools in the middle of the mitten, as they say, in Michigan, you know, in our more more rural areas, and they were visiting schools that they had not been able to reach, because physically, they're three, four hours out of the way. And in this case, technology allowed them to get to those kids. And so I think, you know, is exciting.
Bill H 32:31
The flip side of that coin is there's so much out there that is really hard to filter through at all. And so I think that that is something on the horizon that we as, as imaginers of this profession have to start thinking about how do we? How do we provide filters that are useful to our kids so that they can access the information that's robust, and it's out there? without becoming overwhelmed. And, and I think that that's, that's one of our next big challenges. I think it's one of the topics that we'll be talking about I belong to a group of of independent counselors, or work in independent schools. And I think that that's one of the questions that we'll be asking, how do we help our kids access all this information that's out there, but without becoming overwhelmed by the volume of it? And that's a challenge. So, you know, that's but but challenges like that are? are kind of exciting. You know,
Venkat Raman 33:44
I agree. I agree. I
Bill H 33:46
think this is, this is a problem of abundance. And yes, and that's, that's a, that's, that's a better problem to have than a vacu, or lack of access, or a lack of information. So what we have to do is, is reimagine how we get those who don't like to have it, and those who already have access, how do we help them filter through it?
Venkat Raman 34:20
No, that sounds great. I mean, I think the two sort of comments. One is, you mentioned technology and the reach that it provides to far flung places. And the funny thing is that the technology was probably there and was there but it wasn't quote unquote, okay to do it. Now, it's become acceptable and not just acceptable. It's actually a great way to do it. And you know, like you said, you can be in four places in the space of a single day. Well,
Bill H 34:53 [Technology Broadens Reach]
I just as just as an example, I mean, you know this because cuz you've seen my vita, but when I work every, with, with these young people from Thailand, the Royal Thai scholar program. Program. And, you know, two years ago, two summers ago, we had to do the whole program virtually. So, you know, but we still were able to do the program. And, and that is, is, that was powerful. And, and I found it to be, you know, kind of kind of one of those one of those fun challenges that, you know, I had to rethink what was important because when you're, when you're teaching online, you have to, you can't, you don't just teach, you know, everything, you just do it online, you have to filter through what's important, what's really important, what's valuable. And, and, and you utilize that and you you create different ways to experience it. And, and I think that that reenergized my course for last summer, because I was able to take some of the things that I did two summers ago, and I was still you, I was able to, to utilize that a little bit in what I did last summer. So I think for some of us, it has energized our work potential of, of those intersections where technology really empowers us to to share more information in a more precise way.
Or to to help our students make connections with people they might not otherwise be able to connect to. I mean, I wasn't able to bring people from, you know, California to, to New England for a two hour talk. You know, I mean, nobody's gonna, well, maybe they would, maybe they would come up to Lake Winnipesaukee for a weekend, but but, but, but the point being that, you know, they're not going to travel a day and a half to do a one hour meeting. Right, why, you know, that if we can reimagine that, and they could be sitting in their dining room, you know, in California, and we were talking for an hour with our kids. That's, that's the possibility that, you know, is really kind of cool, because now those connections can happen. And, and I think it's very exciting.
I do think that some of it, you know, the ease in which kids can apply now. Yeah. Is, is is a blessing and a curse. It's, it, it is, it is easier, which, which takes some of the stress out, it certainly takes some of the stress out for teachers. I think, I remember the days when I had, you know, a big canvas, LL Bean bag filled with stationery and, and all kinds of stuff that I would take home on my, on my breaks. And, and my mom would be cooking Thanksgiving dinner, and I'd be, you know, up in my old room typing away, go down to Staples, and, you know, print stuff out it, you know, that that's done, you know, it's now a button, you know, but the ease of it is it's now I think students are, are sometimes being a little too Cavalier with, oh, I just want to see what happens. And, and, and unfortunately, when they take that approach, rarely are they putting in the work necessary to make what happens a positive when, and what I mean by that is because it's so much easier to apply.
Yeah, the numbers at schools have, have accelerated. I mean, what was it UC Santa Barbara just talked 110,000 applications a year, okay, that's a big number. Okay. That's a big number. And so, you know, that makes it that puts a lot of pressure on the people who are reading those files. So they, they, they, they have to read them more quickly. But but it also means that you have to, that is going to catch the eye.
And I think that that is is is one of the challenges at the places that have these incredibly large numbers and and it is It is one of the challenges that we have to get kids to balance their list. And to do so appropriately, appropriately, we do it. And we've we found tools to help us do it. And, and being transparent with families and, you know, being honest with them is, is one of the, one of the, one of the, I think necessary techniques.
And it's, it's, it's sometimes hard to say, Yeah, your child's wonderful. Your child is wonderful. And and they have a right to, to make the application. They need to know why. And they, they need to know what it is that they're bringing to the table that really intersects well with what this college celebrates and is looking for. That's why it's that's hard work. Yeah, that's that's not work that can be done in an hour. I think that that's one of the challenges of families. And one of the challenges of our counseling profession.
Venkat Raman 41:12
Bill, as we start winding down, I wanted to kind of have have two questions for you. I think the first one is, really what kind of advice would you give all these students? I know, you're doing that at Cranbrook? What would you tell students who are applying today? And what are some the top things to look out for? And I don't mean, in the form of what essay to write kind of thing. But yeah, what are things? Keep in mind you think?
Bill H 41:45 [Advice to College-bound Seniors]
Well, I think one of the you mentioned a little earlier you mentioned, you know, that test optional has has come into into vogue. And and the conversations we have with our students is, you know, what are you doing about testing, we still believe that a student is, is in a stronger position, if they have tests, because then they can make choices. They submit them or not. And so that that's that's the position that we, we we take, that's not the position that we take with every single child or every single family. But in general, we believe that when it's possible, and it's not always possible. So yeah. For my my kids, it usually is, but but not for every child.
So I know that we have a diverse population listening. So when it's possible, I think it's, it's a good idea to have the tests. I think it's also a good idea for kids to especially those who are international, to pay attention to what test optional means at each school, because sometimes test optional, means test optional, just for the SAT and ACT. But demonstrate demonstration of English skills are still going to be required. So that might mean that a TOEFL or an IELTS or Duolingo would be required. Okay. So paying attention to detail on that regard is important. So that's something that we we do.
I think is important for kids to to at least have a plan. I think it's vital in today's admissions market, to have a balanced list to have at least two trying to move towards three schools that are in the likely range, likely likely, for me. I'm working with students, and I'm working with them and saying, okay, the likely is let's look at schools that have great honors programs, or have merit scholarships for students with your credentials. So that you know, they have some kind of value added that allows to compete with, you know, the target and the reach schools.
So I'm looking for at least and the reason I'm we're starting to push towards three is that because of the swelling numbers of some of the schools, a school that might have been a likely last year because of an increase of 20% in applications could be a target this year. So so you don't know that at the beginning. That's why, you know when I'm working with kids, that That's what I'm suggesting I want them to have at least a couple where they are in the target range where their their metrics look like they're going to be in the mid 50% range of, of what has been taken in the past, more towards the upper end of that 50%. But, you know, so my kids have a higher tolerance for risk than I do. Good for that. Good for them, you know, I'll be working for them someday.
And, and, and then Reaches, I think, because Reaches require a lot of work. I think three to four of those make sense. And, but but, you know, I, I have kids that have 17 or 18 schools on their list, and I, you know, look at the distribution and, and it's mostly in the Reach category, and I just, you know, sometimes it works out for them. Most of the time, it it, they would be just as successful if they had real work. And, and, and kept it at three to four of those. And but, you know, one of the things I believe in is my kids have the right to apply to college, the way they want to apply to college, and and so do that.
Bill H 46:39
But I think that if I've given counsel on a better strategy, I think having having a balanced list is Is actually vital.
Venkat Raman 46:55
Let me sort of close with one question to you. So, you said you've been doing this for 40 years now. Yeah.
Bill H 47:03
42,42 Okay. Who's counting?
Venkat Raman 47:09
Now, you know, just talking to you, I see so much energy and passion and excitement about it. What keeps you going? What's, what's the thing that keeps it so exciting every morning?
Bill H 47:26 [On Staying Excited]
Coffee No, well actually maybe. I, I, I have been blessed to work at places that have allowed me to grow in different ways. I think that's important. I, you know, I've been here at Cranbrook for 24 years now. And but I have been the Dean of College Counseling, I have been the the head house advisor, I'm now the senior senior associate, but I've been allowed to do other things. And I'm now coaching basketball again, which is a love of mine. So I've been allowed to pursue things and when my kids were coming up through the high school, I was allowed to be a dad, you know, I was allowed to, to be their dad and be there for be there for them. And that was important to me. I think where I am now, in my career, I, you know, my students and working with them is vitally important. But I'm also really interested in you know, impacting and helping the profession because I really believe that it's even it, I believe that we can make a difference, even if that difference is for one kid. Sure. So I, I I look for opportunities to mentor young professionals. And, you know, in a sense, helped create the next next generation of directors of college counseling or Dean's of College Counseling, I think that's, I think that's vitally important learn how to do this craft and to do it well, and to respect it. And, you know, to, to, to support people who have that kind of energy and, and stay relevant, you know, I need to be at different places, and conferences and participate. And I get to learn something new every year. You know, it's last year I learned about schools in the Netherlands. Yeah. Cool. You know, you get to, you know, again, it gets back to to that, you know, Way back in the 80s, when I was in college that was, you know, that was the start of my adult learning phase. Right. And I and I still find opportunities. You know, today we're, you know, there's, there's a lot of stuff that I'm learning about working with students that are from a far more diverse, and wonderfully rich landscape than where I grew up in Western New York, it was pretty, pretty similar. Everybody was this very similar. And, and, and so it's so much more opportunity. And it's just so much more filled with things to learn. And so, you know, for me, you know, my kids have the patience to, to help me learn that stuff. And other things, I think it's, it's really important. I work with great people. I have wonderful kids to work with. And I think what we do is important.
Venkat Raman 51:08
So no question. No question. So, Bill. Thank you so much for taking the time. This has been absolutely energizing and your passion and your excitement for this comes through. And I appreciate you sharing all that with me and with all the listeners out there. So I'm sure I want to talk to you more, but for now, take care.
Bill H 51:32
All right. Thank you. Have a great day. Thanks so much. Yep.
Venkat 51:42
Hi again!
Hope you enjoyed our podcast with Bill Hancock.
Bill shows us his passion for College Counseling, his caring for his students, and shares his rich experiences and insights.
He talks about his “How? What? Why? Where?” approach to counseling, how technology is rewiring the college process, and his work to mentor young counselors.
Students and parents should find sound advice on the challenges of picking a balanced list of colleges in the fluid situation.
For your questions or comments on this podcast, please email podcast at almamatters.io [podcast@almamatters.io].
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Summary Keywords
Podcast for High Schoolers, US Colleges, College Podcast, High School Counselor, High School Students, College Admissions, College Application, Extracurricular, International Students, Applying to US Colleges, Cranbrook Kingswood High School, Bloomfield Hills Michigan, Advice for High School Students, Making College List.